


[Meta] Simon Snow is not a himbo

by aralias



Category: Carry On Series - Rainbow Rowell
Genre: Character Study, Class Issues, Gen, Meta
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2020-08-15
Updated: 2020-08-15
Packaged: 2021-03-07 23:27:55
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 1,529
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/26842150
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/aralias/pseuds/aralias
Summary: A re-post of a bit of meta I wrote on Tumblr about whether Simon is stupid (he isn't) or a himbo (debatable! I sort of wish I'd used another term for the title. But - this is what the post was called.)I've included links to responses other people wrote off the back of my piece at the end, including several discussions about how Simon being lower-class affects the way people view him.Please let me know if you'd like the link removed.
Comments: 13
Kudos: 23





	[Meta] Simon Snow is not a himbo

**Author's Note:**

> I've backdated this to the date the original post was made, August 15th 2020: https://captain-aralias.tumblr.com/post/626521846353985536/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo

This isn’t a post about Simon’s possible ADHD or autism, but I like the way we can re-frame him by thinking about those conditions and how they might affect him. 

This is just about whether Simon is indeed as dumb of ass as the memes tell us.

> “Don’t be stupid,” she says.   
> “I’m _not_.” I look in her brown eyes. “Penny, I’m not stupid.”

## Why do we think Simon is stupid?

I think it’s primarily because Baz tells us that he is. Some examples:

  * _He’s not even sure if he’s gay. (Which is moronic. But Snow is a moron, so.)_
  * _No wonder Snow follows her around like a congenitally stupid dog on a very short leash._
  * _That’s what Snow does best. He doesn’t plan or strike - he just goes off … He’s half a fucking numpty himself._



There was some[ good meta recently](https://captain-aralias.tumblr.com/post/623336262480412672/kinda-fucked-that-rainbow-straight-up-erased-bazs) about (among other things) not taking Penny’s comment about Baz being ‘the whitest person I’ve ever seen’ at face-value, but instead reading it through the perspective that Penny is an unreliable commentator.

In the epilogue, Baz tells us we should do the same with his earlier comments.

> _Simon: ‘I was a sorry excuse for a mage, how many times did you tell me so?”  
>  Baz: “I said that because I was jealous!”_

I’d argue, he’s not only jealous - he’s also putting Simon down in his head to make himself feel better. When he thinks Snow is a stupid dog or a numpty, he thinks he has no chance - and when he thinks _‘Snow is a moron’,_ he thinks he’s going to get dumped immediately and is protecting himself.

In the same scene where he re-frames his comment, Baz even explicitly states that Simon is ‘brave and selfless and **clever** ’. 

You could argue he is again being an unreliable commentator, because now he wants Simon to feel better about himself, but what Simon has done by defeating the Humdrum _is_ clever. He worked out the solution, and believed in his solution, even though Baz told him his answer was wrong and holes didn’t want to be filled. (N.B. Baz is still right too. But he doesn’t know how to fix the problem.) 

It’s at least probable that part of the reason Simon is sent on so many quests is because he’s very good at this sort of thinking. When Penny and Baz discuss how Simon worked out the identity of Nicodemus they have this exchange: 

> _“Simon’s the one who broke it all open,” he says, “without even opening a book.”  
>  “Typical,” Penny says._

One interpretation is - Simon doesn’t read books, because he’s not as smart as Penny and Baz. Another is that SImon typically solves problems - maybe through blind luck, but maybe by making the right connections. He doesn’t just randomly go and see Ebb and chance onto the information; he doesn’t even get the information because he was kind to her and they were friends and he wouldn’t have got it otherwise - although that’s true. He sees her and realises that she would have been at Watford at the right time, and chooses to approach her for information. 

Simon is mocked for insisting Baz is a vampire - but he _is_ a vampire, and Simon was the one who noticed.

Even if Baz _did_ think Simon was stupid, Baz doesn’t go on these quests until eighth year and so would rarely even see this side of Simon. I don’t think Penny ever says Simon is stupid until Wayward Son when she doesn’t mean it and he immediately corrects her.

It’s not even true that Simon never opens a book when cracking a case - he spends weeks reading The _Record_ , which puts him a good position to offer information that moves the investigation on. 

Some other reasons I think we think Simon is stupid: 

  * He was holding his wand the wrong way round when he met Penny
  * He says he doesn’t think
  * He doesn’t know he’s in love with Baz
  * He stutters and speaks with a lower-class accent
  * He doesn’t use fancy spells to solve his problems
  * Baz and Penelope are both very clever/very focused on academic studies in a way Simon isn’t
  * He doesn’t know things that everyone else around him knows, like the Veil being real



The first and final items on this list are a product of the same cause - unlike every other magician who has ever lived, Simon Snow didn’t spend the first ten years of his life around other magicians. He doesn’t spend the holidays around other magicians and he essentially isn’t allowed to practice magic during the holidays while everyone else is. This puts him constantly behind his classmates in and of itself, but he also gets dragged out of lessons constantly and spends a long time outside school putting him even _further_ behind. We see this having an effect on even Penelope’s ability to do well in school - and she has no other interests besides magic and Simon. 

Penny takes Simon on a roadtrip across America without having any idea how big the country is. At no point does Simon take the piss and at no point does the narrative call either her or Baz stupid for making this mistake, and doing no research about American magic.

Simon is naturally inclined to solve his problems with violence rather than spells or words, because he had a speech impediment as a child - and because he knows that his magic goes wrong for him and avoids using it. 

Baz and Penny being much more academically inclined than Simon also makes him look stupid in comparison. But they probably wouldn’t like him as much if he actually _was_ stupid. Debatable. Harry Potter isn’t automatically labelled an idiot because Hermione is the cleverest witch of her age and Harry sometimes copies her homework. He does well in his OWLS, excelling in subjects he’s interested in to the extent that he’s even able to teach others.

One of my favourite tropes/things to write is Simon thinking something incredibly gay about Baz and not realising how gay it is. However, I don’t think this is him being stupid either. He’s ‘ _got a lot on his plate_ ’. Baz is a complete jerk. Simon really wants to be in love with Agatha. The moment Simon realises how he feels he acts on it and makes something good happen; whereas top-of-the-class Basilton Pitch has known how he feels for literal years and has chosen to respond by taking only actions that make it _less_ likely he will ever get to go out with Simon. 

## Simon also isn’t that nice

As well as being dumb and beefy, the other thing you need to be a himbo is to be kind. I’m actually not arguing that Simon isn’t kind, but I am going to suggest… that he is Order of the Phoenix Harry Potter - more often angry than not angry. Fangirl isn’t canon, but it tells us that GTL was criticised for creating a hero who was _“sometimes selfish and bad-tempered”._ When Baz compares him to the sun, he doesn’t mean that Simon has a sunny personality - he means that Simon is fiery and the centre of gravity in his universe. 

In a pastel/punk AU (is it an AU if it’s just the canon?), unless we’re casting against type, Baz is an angsty soft boy who wants to wear floral shirts. And Simon is a righteously angry punk like Fiona, who we would never say was stupid even though her plans to defeat the Mage include shitting in a bag. 

He’s not a himbo.

## The end

I always run out of steam with these. You get my point though.

Diagram from <https://agreyeyedgirl.tumblr.com/post/619580281275531264/scofflawsins-a-himbo-must-must-be-kind>

## What other people had to say about this issue 

[My original post](https://captain-aralias.tumblr.com/post/626541427217858560/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo) was a conversation starter, and other commenters had more (and better) things to say that I did, particularly about Simon being lower-class, which I touched on only briefly.

These are some of the main things other people said.

If i haven't included your post and you'd like me to, please let me know! (It probably wasn't on purpose, I find Tumblr hard to navigate. That's why I'm putting the meta here.) Alternately, if I have put you on the list below and you'd prefer your work not be linked, please let me know and I'll remove you.

Class issues:

  * @[sourcherrymagiks](https://tmblr.co/mJG7yoXVbhanCYqOp_CTFRw) [posted about class](https://sourcherrymagiks.tumblr.com/post/626527203109339136/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo)
  * [@gampyre](https://tmblr.co/mx8HUQlNb06jY5dzrYph6sw) added a lot to the discussion on class:[ “a LARGE PART of what we consider intelligence that is socially/environmentally determined”](https://gampyre.tumblr.com/post/626555374674264064/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo)
  * [@aristocratic-otter](https://tmblr.co/mB1YKU4vTim2aw8wKs_Br6w) added to that thread [specifically focusing on cultural capital and education](https://aristocratic-otter.tumblr.com/post/626584160299089920/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo)



Other:

  * [@vkelleyart](https://tmblr.co/mGzkNg8q8cverB6jlNdUFzw) talks about [Simon being kind](https://vkelleyshares.tumblr.com/post/626533303641571328/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo)
  * [@carryonsimoncarryonbaz](https://tmblr.co/mElSaIRO280d01THtzUq86w) [here](https://carryonsimoncarryonbaz.tumblr.com/post/626532083671662593/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo) \- pointing out that this is another trope rainbow has subverted, amongst other things. She adds more about[ Simon’s blindspot being romance here](https://carryonsimoncarryonbaz.tumblr.com/post/626547621919670272/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo)
  * [@theflyingpeach](https://tmblr.co/mJpHVDKspFKcR5GYAlZAnNA) \- who argues that [simon is a himbo for all the reasons given above](https://theflyingpeach.tumblr.com/post/626538688014368768/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo), and this is OK (i think we’re agreeing and agreeing to disagree at the same time)
  * @[adamarks](https://adamarks.tumblr.com/post/626544744401649665/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo) [responds on the same theme](https://adamarks.tumblr.com/post/626544744401649665/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo)
  * [@the-lincyclopedia](https://tmblr.co/mLYW8itIaB7mMLM1WZw0mWg) [links to an earlier post they wrote on the word ‘moronosexual’](https://the-lincyclopedia.tumblr.com/post/189282916382/okay-heres-the-thing-im-really-not-a-fan-of)
  * @[super-duper-twelve](https://super-duper-twelve.tumblr.com/post/626597849578242048/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo) adds [points about humour and EQ](https://super-duper-twelve.tumblr.com/post/626597849578242048/simon-snow-is-not-a-himbo)
  * and many more in the notes 




End file.
